Tutorials, Tips and Information

Mitch_Shepard · 2023-12-21 19:40

Tutorials, Tips and Information for Content Sharing

Post your own tutorials or links to good tutorials, tips and other information here to help everyone share content on the site. The more everyone knows about sharing content here, the more and better content we'll all have to enjoy.

Mitch_Shepard · (This post was last modified: 2023-12-24 22:21 by Mitch_Shepard.)

2023-12-24
Media Player Classic section including MPC Setup added to the Cam Site Recording and Posting Guide.

Mitch_Shepard · 2023-12-21 19:41

Recording Cam Shows

CTB Recorder provides a free and easy way to record multiple cam shows at once from pretty much all the cam sites. You won't have to mess with screen recording software, will never accidentally reveal any personal information as you might from your video display, and the audio will always be recorded for you.

You don't need a ton of free disk space to record cam shows. Recordings of 1080p streams use about 2.5 gigs an hour. I only keep 100 to 200 GB of free disk space for all the recordings I make. The less disk space you have, the more often you'll have to watch the recordings and delete them to free up space.

See my CTB Recorder tutorial. The download link is right at the top and it's easy to set up and use.

Mitch_Shepard · (This post was last modified: 2024-01-22 8:20 by Mitch_Shepard.)

Cam Site Recording and Posting Guide

This guide will take you step-by-step through the process of recording cam shows, viewing and editing the recordings with free tools, uploading the edited recordings to file hosts, and creating BBCode templates for your posts including screenshots to highlight your videos.

Click to read more...

Mitch_Shepard · (This post was last modified: 2023-12-23 17:55 by Mitch_Shepard.)

Creating Video Contact Sheets (Thumbnails)

Download AMT - Auto-Movie-Thumbnailer to scan a folder (and optional sub-folders) for videos and create contact sheets (thumbnail images) in a batch totally free of charge.

Click for setup instructions...

Mitch_Shepard · (This post was last modified: 2023-12-23 2:34 by Mitch_Shepard.)

Watermarking Videos

With thanks to CamPorn Freak for the tip, I use the 64-bit version of FormatFactory which can be downloaded from formatfactory.org

Click for instructions...

Mitch_Shepard · (This post was last modified: 2023-12-23 18:07 by Mitch_Shepard.)

Freeloading Pirates!

There's a lot of misinformation going around on cam sites among both models and viewers due to ignorance. Reality doesn't and can't lie. Most models who whine about "freeloaders" have few viewers in their rooms, earn little money and are likely going to quit, if not this month then next month. I've seen it happen many times due to a misunderstanding of how cam sites work, and what copyright is really about.

Click to continue reading...

sjkjhasfkjhas · 2023-12-22 8:24

(2023-12-21 19:46)Mitch_Shepard Wrote:
Freeloading Pirates!

There's a lot of misinformation going around on cam sites among both models and viewers due to ignorance. Reality doesn't and can't lie. Most models who whine about "freeloaders" have few viewers in their rooms, earn little money and are likely going to quit, if not this month then next month. I've seen it happen many times due to a misunderstanding of how cam sites work, and what copyright is really about.

Click to continue reading...

Copyright
I’m not a lawyer, so if you need legal advice consult an attorney. I had my own software package out in the global marketplace for years, so I had to talk to lawyers about copyright and have read some copyright law. But it’s not a substitute for proper legal advice due to mountains of global caselaw and other things I know little about, so do talk to a lawyer if you need legal advice.

Lawyers explained copyright to me using newspapers, magazines and library books because copyright law has to cover those kinds of things. The main reason for copyright is to protect printed material, so modern media formats like video have to fit into the old protections.

It’s legal for you to read a newspaper you find on a park bench or the seat of a bus without paying the publisher anything and no newspaper publisher could make you pay for a paper you found. It’s also legal for you to buy a newspaper or novel and leave it in your apartment building’s laundry room or on public transit so others can read it for free.

Libraries similarly don’t have to purchase a separate copy of each book they loan out. They buy one copy of each book then loan that one copy to as many people as want to borrow it and that’s perfectly legal under copyright “fair use” provisions. The Video Cassette Recorder (VCR) industry set precedents in every court in the world in the 1980s over bullshit allegations of copyright woes by TV and movie producers. You should know just using simple common sense that DVRs exist and it's perfectly legal to record any copyrighted content you want with them.

A now infamous Soviet studio that had rooms all over Chaturbate, STUDIO WITH THE BEST MODELS, plastered banners in all its rooms stating: WARNING: DO NOT RECORD MY CAM SHOWS, OR I WILL TAKE LEGAL ACTION AGAINST YOU! <3. Typical Soviets. They can't compete due to a combination of ignorance and a lack of self-confidence, so they cheat, threaten, blackmail and lie to try to get ahead.

You're free to record any cam shows you like and to share what you record anywhere you want to, no differently than everyone was free to record whatever copyrighted broadcast content they wanted with their VCRs and to then loan the cassette tapes to whomever they wanted and however many people they wanted to loan it to, free of charge or for a rental fee as outlets like Blockbuster Video proved all over the world. Apparently, VCRs and video rental stores never made it behind the Iron Curtain. I don't think the Soviets are the absolute most clueless and lost people in the world, but they're close and the closer anyone is to Russia, the worse their delusions about reality are.

Copyright protects mainly against plagiarism, which means taking copyrighted content and claiming it’s your own. This article has automatic global copyright protection no differently than cam shows do. You’re free to “quote” (the equivalent of recording/copying a video) my copyrighted content in your own copyrighted content as long as you add something to it, like doing a review of this article to call me brilliant or a fool, or you rearrange things to feature (quote) this or that from this post, as long as you provide “attribution” to the original copyright holder, which means providing credit.

You can hit the Reply button below and the software on this site will take care of the necessary legal issues for you by putting my copyrighted content into its own box with my name at the top to make it clear whose content belongs to whom.

That’s the main concern around copyrighted content. Don’t take copyrighted content that belongs to Chaturbate, a model or studio and make it look like you own it. If you review a show from Chaturbate, the review itself is yours and whatever you add (your own original work) is automatically copyrighted. You can use Chaturbate’s content in your review or highlight as long as you credit the original copyright holder to make it clear that it’s not your content.

Think of the sports highlights on the evening news. Broadcasters of live sporting events don’t have staff manning phone lines 24/7 to give (or deny) permission to all the global news agencies that want to cover the sports. Your evening news broadcasters make it clear when they show highlights from a game that the content belongs to the broadcaster. You’ll see “Courtesy of” which makes it appear as though the original broadcaster is being nice allowing the news programs to use their content. But they’re not being nice. It’s perfectly legal under copyright “fair use” to use any copyrighted content you want to use in any original work you create as long as you provide credit to the original copyright holder.

Search YouTube for “let’s play” and you’ll find recordings of full game playthroughs from start to finish, which is much like recording a full cam show from start to finish and sharing it somewhere. Videogames are copyrighted the same as cam shows are. Copyright law has to cover all original works, no matter what the media type, and game publishers don’t sue YouTube or the creators of Let’s Play videos because they can’t. It’s legal under copyright “fair use” provisions.

Game publishers also sell games, not recordings of people playing their games. A copyright holder must be able to make a case that a copyright violator caused them financial damages to even file a lawsuit in a court of law. Game publishers are out no money due to Let’s Play videos because they don’t sell videos. They sell games, not recordings of games, and they’re two completely different products. The same is true of cam shows.

A little side note, there are two types of law and courts, criminal and civil. The only country I know of where copyright violation is a potential criminal issue, with FBI warnings on copyrighted content, is the USA. In every other country I know of, copyright is a civil issue, meaning police won't get involved in it, you can't be arrested for it, and you can't go to jail for violating copyright law. Police and prisons are for criminals, not people who allegedly violate civil law and that's probably why it's called “civil”. The remedy in civil courts is money or the return of property, so unless a copyright holder can make a case that a copyright violator cost them money, there's no legal case to even be made that any civil court will care about.

Game publishers not only don’t sue those who record playthroughs of their games and share their recordings on YouTube or Twitch, but provide free Steam keys to popular game streamers because it’s free promotion for the games. How else would anyone go about promoting a videogame but with screenshots and recordings of real gameplay? We could try to do reviews of videogames using words alone but why would we do that when a picture is worth a thousand words? The same applies to cam shows.

Cam site operators, models and studios sell live broadcasts, not recordings. Recordings are incapable of competing with live shows. Anyone can try to chat with and tip a recording all evening long and the recording will never chat back or do what the tipper wanted other than by fluke. Anyone who’s ever been part of a live broadcast on a cam site by chatting and tipping, knows that the difference between watching a recording of a show that’s already over and being part of a live event are like night and day. They're completely different things and I don't know of any models who sell recordings of their past shows, so nothing here (or on CW) is causing any model any financial damages at all, and they have no legal case to make about recordings.

How are Hollywood movies promoted? Marketers take the best parts of movies and compile them into video clips called trailers. They then make those trailers available free of charge everywhere they can. Do people say, “Now we’ve seen all the best parts of the movie, so we don’t have to go to the theater!” No, it’s how to promote movies. No one goes to the theater to see a movie they’ve never heard of, and no one ends up in the rooms of cam models they don’t know exist.

Models who cry about “freeloading pirates” know nothing about business and simply don’t understand marketing. The only reason a model would have to whine around a site like this one is if she’s NOT being “pirated” here, which is true of most cam models. Most of them never get any extra promotional help anywhere, so they have to rely on people stumbling across their little stream preview on the cam site’s homepage to get viewers, and that's only good if a model is on page 1, 2 or 3. How many pages do you look at on cam site homepages? I go out of my way to look at the first 10 pages, sometimes 15, but how are all the models on pages 16 through 50+ supposed to get customers? If we featured some of those models here, they'd get a few more viewers and that's all that ever happens with any models we “pirate” here. This site promotes cam sites and cam models (and studios, unfortunately) and it can't do anything else given the content here.

The stream previews on cam site homepages are the main advertising for cam models but extra promotion never hurts and if you see a model you like via this site, you’ll be more likely, not less likely, to go to her room.

You’ll recognize a model you’ve seen here which will cause you to pause for just a little longer on that model's stream summary on the cam site's homepage compared to all the models around her. It’s called “brand recognition” and is the main reason for advertising. When you’re in the lineup at the supermarket, you don’t see actual candy bars at the cash register but the wrappers (the branding) and if you’ve seen ads of that candy bar somewhere, you’ll be drawn to and will pause a little longer over the brands you recognize.

I’ll agree with any model who claims that the videos on this and other sites aren’t ideal, professional advertising. A lot of it is terrible, but you get what you pay for and models aren’t paying us to do proper advertising for them. If they want us to do good advertising for them free of charge, the least they can do is provide us with good promo content and tell us how they want it distributed.

Know of any models who do that? Me either. In my experiences, most models have no idea that DMCA stands for Digital Millennium Copyright Act and that it protects them from basically nothing. But it’s also my experience that most models don’t know the first thing about modeling either. They don’t even know the basics from the David Bowie song, Fashion: “Turn to the left! Turn to the right!” They point straight at the camera even during ice shows when they're making their nipples hard. They don't even turn to the sides to show whether they got hard or not. How are we supposed to know when they point straight at the camera and we're viewing the show on flat-screen displays? It's Modeling-101 and most of them have no idea.

Most cam models have never been to modeling school, business school and they know nothing about copyright law, business or the entertainment industry. Soviet cam models don't understand capitalism, free markets, competition or much of anything else about reality outside the former USSR. They think they can sell nudity on cam sites or can pretend to sell nudity when they only intend to show their feet, and money will fall from the sky by magic.

That’s not how it works, and those models always fail due to ignorance. Ignorance (usually caused by laziness) is the cause of almost all failure, and most cam models have no idea how cam sites work. Many don’t even seem to be aware that they’re on camera.

They fail due to their ignorance but won’t want to admit to that, so they blame “freeloading pirates” when all we do is help models. If a model tries to tell you that her business is being ruined by recordings, tell her she should just broadcast recordings and save herself from sitting in front of her camera for hours.

If recordings are just as good as live shows and can compete with them equally, then cam models can just broadcast recordings and skip sitting in front of their camera for hours. Think that’d work? It wouldn’t work because recordings are incapable of competing with live shows. Live cam models compete with other live cam models, not with recordings of past shows that are already over.

The main feature on Chaturbate is in the first four letters of its name, c-h-a-t live chat with live performers. If all anyone wants is nudity or sex, they'll just go to Pornhub.com where they can get more sex and nudity than anyone could handle in ten lifetimes totally free of charge without any hassles buying tokens, chatting or waiting for private shows to open or goals to be completed.

Cam site realities
It's not just models who have little idea how cam sites work. Most viewers have also never operated their own business and are oblivious about all of the above, and when you combine the ignorance of models with average viewers you end up with vigilantes who go around trying to get our videos taken down when all they do is help to promote cam models. Watch the ignorant models fail and quit one after the other, and notice who they listen to.

We also have clueless but usually well-meaning cam site viewers telling models never to show anything “for free” in public when I don't know of any model who'll even stand up and turn around for free. They're working, so they shouldn't be doing anything for free but they never do, so there's never a need to cry about it.

Models have goals, tip menus and they do nothing for free. Calling “free chat” free is disinformation. Try taking to a model without tipping her and you'll see how free it is, not that I'm complaining. It shouldn't be free but it's not, so why say "free" chat? There's nothing free about anything on cam sites, unless someone just quietly watches in the background without saying anything, and that helps models by boosting their ranking on the site moving their stream preview, their main advertising, closer to spot 1 on page one of the cam site's homepage.

The more people a model can get into her room, especially if she can get them chatting, the closer the site moves her to spot 1 on page 1 of the homepage. There are other factors, like having a regular schedule is important and not doing too many hidden shows, but the more viewers a model gets in her room and the more she gets them chatting, the closer her stream preview will move towards the top of page 1 of the cam site's homepage where models can gain a lot of exposure, earn a lot of money, and change their careers. It's a good thing whenever you're in a room. You're always helping models just by being there whether you have tokens to spend or not.

It's why most successful models let “gray” users chat in their room. “Gray” users are you and me and successful models know it. Sometimes they're spammers and assholes but lots of times the “grays” in rooms are the regular tippers who've run out of tokens. They're you and me using our alternate accounts.

Successful models know we can't afford to buy 1000 tokens every evening or two, so we use alternate accounts when we have no tokens. Successful models are that way because they're informed about how cam sites, capitalism and business work and they know who their customers are. They've learned, and knowledge usually translates to success while ignorance leads to mistakes and failure.

The more people chatting in a model's room, even if they've never bought tokens (on a given account, Chaturbate's operators aren't stupid either; they know we use multiple accounts), the closer the model's stream preview moves towards the top of page one on the cam site's homepage, so it's always to the advantage of models to get as many people into their room as they can, and to get them all chatting.

Never take any shit about “freeloading” on cam sites. The only true freeloaders on cam sites are models who freeload on the bandwidth cam site operators provide for free, which they do expecting models to put on good shows for ALL viewers, including the ones who have no tokens to spend on any given night, so everyone keeps coming back to the site evening after evening. The models who whine about “freeloaders” are themselves the ones who are freeloading on the free bandwidth cam site operators provide. They understand nothing about how cam sites work and almost always fail due to their ignorance, not due to the “freeloading pirates” they scapegoat.

It's just a simple fact that the prices models charge on cam sites are insane and almost no one is rich. Successful models have told me that their regular customers buy 1000 tokens per month or less, on average, and that makes sense. It costs about $100 to buy 1000 tokens and that's a lot of money to spend on optional entertainment month after month. A Netflix subscription only costs between $15 and $20 per month with no ads and your whole family can enjoy that content while cam site tokens are basically a waste of money for most people who put buying tokens at the bottom of their priority list, after buying kitty litter.

To be successful, cam site models must deal with reality. They can wish money would fall from the sky, but we all wish that and it doesn't tend to happen. How far does 1000 tokens go on cam sites these days? The prices are crazy. Models typically charge 300 tokens for ten-minute ticket shows and that's $30 which is more than a MONTHLY Netflix subscription... gone in ten minutes and often for shit shows that were worth nothing.

The problem is that we men are supposed to be made of money, so we never tell anyone that we can't afford to buy 1000 tokens every other day, which is about how long that amount of tokens lasts. I buy 1000 tokens at a time and very often spend all of them in an hour or two. It's very easy to do and who can afford to blow $100 every few hours?

We never say anything because we're men, but reality is reality and successful cam models understand facts. They know that most of their regular viewers can only afford to tip a couple of evenings per month and that the rest of the time we're going to be “freeloading” with no tokens to spend. Successful models never care who's in their room without tipping (as long as they behave themselves) because they understand reality, while unsuccessful models believe the nonsense we men tell them about being made of money.

We don't have to come out and say it. We tell models we're made of money every time we blow $30 for a ten-minute ticket show, as though money is no object. Money is supposed to be no object to men. We're supposed to be made of money, so that's how we act. But successful models understand that it's almost never true. The models who welcome everyone whether they have tokens to spend that night or not succeed while the ones who bitch about “freeloaders” fail because we all freeload most of the time on cam sites. They're insanely expensive and almost no one is rich, so reality prevails.

We don't admit to freeloading because we're men but facts are facts and if models want to succeed on cam sites, they must deal with reality, not how they wish things were. We all wish we had 50000 tokens every week. It'd make being around cam sites a lot more fun, but reality is reality and most of us buy 1000 tokens per month or less, on average. Ask any successful model and she'll tell you it's true. That they know this is why they're successful.

Be warned: this is a very long, and fundamentally broken understanding of copyright and should serve as a reminder that you should not get your legal advice from random people on the internet. If you're going to read a long guide on the basics of copyright, I recommend Harvard's Guide to Copyright which has the benefit of being written by people who actually understand the law. (Note that while that copyright laws are country-specific, virtually all countries are signatories to the Berne Convention, TRIPS, or both and the concept of what constitutes copyright is well-understood and agreed-upon internationally)

Mitch_Shepard · 2023-12-23 4:31

(2023-12-22 8:24)sjkjhasfkjhas Wrote: Be warned: this is a very long, and fundamentally broken understanding of copyright and should serve as a reminder that you should not get your legal advice from random people on the internet. If you're going to read a long guide on the basics of copyright, I recommend Harvard's Guide to Copyright which has the benefit of being written by people who actually understand the law. (Note that while that copyright laws are country-specific, virtually all countries are signatories to the Berne Convention, TRIPS, or both and the concept of what constitutes copyright is well-understood and agreed-upon internationally)

What's well-understood and agreed-upon by academic theorists often bears little resembliance to reality, and I cited example after example of "copyright violations" in the real world that no one does anything about because they can't.

Quote:However, unless fair use or another exception to copyright protection applies, you may not reproduce the actual text of the paper without permission.

--Harvard's Copyright Guide

We MAY NOT reproduce the actual text of the paper without permission, yet you did just that to my copyrighted work above without my permission when you clicked on the Reply button. You didn't even edit my original work. The entire massive thing is copied fully in your post that you made without my permission, and there's nothing I can do about it due to copyright fair use and other realities versus academic wishful thinking.

Quote:* Downloading material to your own computer necessarily makes an electronic copy of it, and printing what you’ve downloaded makes another copy. A copyright owner is therefore entitled to prohibit downloading and printing.

--Harvard's Copyright Guide

A pointless thing to say. A copyright owner is "entitled" to prohibit downloading, but why would anything be online if a copyright holder wanted that? No one can see anything online without downloading it. Every word of text you see on your devices has been downloaded, so the only way to prevent anyone from downloading online content is not to make it available online in the first place.

Quote:It is now codified in Section 107 of the Copyright Act, which provides that fair use of a work “for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use, scholarship, or research)” is not an infringement of copyright.

--Harvard's Copyright Guide

This is pretty much what everyone needs to know. Go ahead and read the full article from Harvard, but then search YouTube for "let's play" and watch all the videos of recordings of full game playthroughs of copyrighted games. Or look at Recurbate which just had its domain names seized for infringing on Chaturbate's trademark (not copyright) by using "urbate" in recurbate.com. I think that was a weak ruling by WIPO, but Chaturbate obviously knows all about the recordings on Recurbate and it's never tried to sue them to get them taken down because it can't.

Those are public shows broadcast on public internet airwaves and there are a billion legal arguments to make, including that recordings cause no financial damages to Chaturbate or any models.

I don't even think someone selling a "pirated" recording of a private show from Chaturbate could be successfully sued by anyone. It'd be very difficult to prove that a recording of a live show that's already over somehow causes a business or model that sells live content financial damages. The show is over, so the cam site and model can't make any more money from it and recordings of live events typically aren't available until the live event is finished, at which point no one can make money from the live event because it's over.

If a copyright holder can't prove that an alleged copyright violator caused them financial damages, there's no case to be made in court, and recordings don't compete with live events like cam shows. They promote them, just as "Let's Play" videos on YouTube don't compete with the sales of actual games, but promote games.

There's no point in citing legal technicalities when reality makes things clear.

Quote:The Berne Convention does not expressly reference doctrines such as fair use or fair dealing, leading some critics of fair use to argue that fair use violates the Berne Convention. However, the United States and other fair use nations argue that flexible standards such as fair use include the factors of the three-step test, and are therefore compliant. The WTO Panel has ruled that the standards are not incompatible.

--Wikipedia: Berne Convention

It's up to you if you'd rather follow a convention from 1886 instead of googling "copyright fair use" to get an updated explanation, or just look around at reality to see that DVRs exist and no TV or movie producers ever managed to take down the VCR industry with arguments about their "rights". Blockbuster Video never asked a TV or movie producer if it was okay for them to rent recordings of the copyrighted content because libraries do it.

There also used to be software rental stores where people could rent full software packages including all the manuals. The purpose of it was obvious. People rented software to make copies without paying the owner of the intellectual property the required fee. But such stores operated because no one could successfully sue them. What would the argument have been when libraries and public schools do the same thing loaning copyrighted content (books) to lots of different people without the permission of the copyright holder and without paying any extra fees? It doesn't matter because no argument was ever successfully made in any court I know of anywhere in the world.

Blockbuster Video was still operating just a few years ago and didn't shut down due to being sued for alleged copyright infringment, even though it's easy to make a case against Blockbuster using just Harvard's academic summary (of wishful thinking), but because everyone gets copyrighted content online now.

I stated upfront that I'm not a lawyer, but reality is reality, the lawyers I talked to made me aware of simple realities despite what I wanted my rights to be around my own intellectual property, and I care what happens with real people in the real world, not academic theories from an American university that prove nothing anyway. There might be laws somewhere or academic interpretations of laws against the sky being blue but reality is reality, and academic types need to check on reality much more often than they do.

I'm not trying to be the final word on this. Reality gets the final word every time and has already spoken with regard to copyright.

holmes · (This post was last modified: 2023-12-23 9:07 by holmes.)

(2023-12-23 4:31)Mitch_Shepard Wrote:
Quote:However, unless fair use or another exception to copyright protection applies, you may not reproduce the actual text of the paper without permission.

--Harvard's Copyright Guide

We MAY NOT reproduce the actual text of the paper without permission, yet you did just that to my copyrighted work above without my permission when you clicked on the Reply button. You didn't even edit my original work. The entire massive thing is copied fully in your post that you made without my permission, and there's nothing I can do about it due to copyright fair use and other realities versus academic wishful thinking.

Since he's only quoting you (as I am now) and the content is clearly attributed to you and should in any case remain unaltered (suggesting he should have at least edited your original work is kinda strange), this falls indeed under the fair use exception which is by itself well established in the little academic US law for example which states that use of copyrighted material "for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright" 17 USC 107: Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use

Mitch_Shepard · 2023-12-23 16:43

(2023-12-23 9:07)holmes Wrote: Since he's only quoting you (as I am now) and the content is clearly attributed to you and should in any case remain unaltered (suggesting he should have at least edited your original work is kinda strange), this falls indeed under the fair use exception which is by itself well established in the little academic US law for example which states that use of copyrighted material "for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright" 17 USC 107: Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use

Normally when quoting someone else's work, the entire thing needn't be included. It takes nothing to edit quoted text. Don't quote the entire bible to make a point about it. I'm just glad I used a spoiler tag.

Pointing out copyright fair use is what my original post does all over the place using real examples from the real world, including the real-world example of Recurbate with recordings of cam shows from start to finish on it that Chaturbate obviously knows about. There's no point in nitpicking over academic legal technicalities with such obvious real-world examples to use, and there are many.

holmes · (This post was last modified: 2023-12-23 18:01 by holmes.)

(2023-12-23 16:43)Mitch_Shepard Wrote: Normally when quoting someone else's work, the entire thing needn't be included. It takes nothing to edit quoted text. Don't quote the entire bible to make a point about it. I'm just glad I used a spoiler tag.

Wrong, you can quote a single word out of an entire book. It's then the job of the readers to go check the context if they are courageaous enough and to avoid any misinterpretation of the work quoted. This is an issue in all scientific publications (especially human sciences) and the media in their globality.

(2023-12-23 16:43)Mitch_Shepard Wrote: Pointing out copyright fair use is what my original post does all over the place using real examples from the real world, including the real-world example of Recurbate with recordings of cam shows from start to finish on it that Chaturbate obviously knows about. There's no point in nitpicking over academic legal technicalities with such obvious real-world examples to use, and there are many.

The law is all about technicalities and in fact rarely disconnected from what you call the real world. Plus the Chaturbate/Recurbate thing has nothing to do with copyright fair use. It's a matter of ownership which Chaturbate can't claim as they are not creator of content but only provide a streaming service. If it was a copyright issue CB would have no problem to lead a site like Recurbate to simply shut down, but the only thing they can legally argue about is the domain name ("urbate"), that's why recurbate is now recu.me.

And sorry but were you drunk when you wrote this?
"Never take any shit about “freeloading” on cam sites. The only true freeloaders on cam sites are models who freeload on the bandwidth cam site operators provide for free, which they do expecting models to put on good shows for ALL viewers, including the ones who have no tokens to spend on any given night, so everyone keeps coming back to the site evening after evening. The models who whine about “freeloaders” are themselves the ones who are freeloading on the free bandwidth cam site operators provide. They understand nothing about how cam sites work and almost always fail due to their ignorance, not due to the “freeloading pirates” they scapegoat."

Mitch_Shepard · (This post was last modified: 2023-12-23 21:56 by Mitch_Shepard.)

(2023-12-23 17:54)holmes Wrote: Wrong, you can quote a single word out of an entire book. It's then the job of the readers to go check the context if they are courageaous enough and to avoid any misinterpretation of the work quoted. This is an issue in all scientific publications (especially human sciences) and the media in their globality.

Wrong? Quote an entire book to make a point about something on page 5? The main point of quoting posts here is to remind everyone of what's being responded to because the original post is usually just above, as is certainly the case here. There's no need to quote an entire article just to basically add "RE:" to remind everyone of what's being responded to.

(2023-12-23 17:54)holmes Wrote: The law is all about technicalities and in fact rarely disconnected from what you call the real world. Plus the Chaturbate/Recurbate thing has nothing to do with copyright fair use. It's a matter of ownership which Chaturbate can't claim as they are not creator of content but only provide a streaming service.

That's a pointless technicality, and why bother? Why not just accept reality instead of nitpicking? That Recurbate exists and has been operating for years redistributing full recordings of cam shows from start to finish proves that no one, not Chaturbate, not models, not studios can make legal cases that recordings somehow damage their sales of live broadcasts. It's all anyone needs to pay attention to, but there are many other examples.

Quote:And sorry but were you drunk when you wrote this?
"Never take any shit about “freeloading” on cam sites. The only true freeloaders on cam sites are models who freeload on the bandwidth cam site operators provide for free, which they do expecting models to put on good shows for ALL viewers, including the ones who have no tokens to spend on any given night, so everyone keeps coming back to the site evening after evening. The models who whine about “freeloaders” are themselves the ones who are freeloading on the free bandwidth cam site operators provide. They understand nothing about how cam sites work and almost always fail due to their ignorance, not due to the “freeloading pirates” they scapegoat."

Thanks for reading, but why don't you make a valid point about something instead of trying to discredit with random insults about drunkenness. I'm always happy to entertain valid counterpoints. You just don't have any and I've already explained this.

Edit: This issue is finished. The purpose of this thread is to help others to share content. If anyone wants to start a thread on why not to share content here and elsewhere, they're free to do do. But stop posting irrelevant nonsense here.

holmes · (This post was last modified: 2023-12-24 8:33 by holmes.)

(2023-12-23 21:19)Mitch_Shepard Wrote: Wrong? Quote an entire book to make a point about something on page 5? The main point of quoting posts here is to remind everyone of what's being responded to because the original post is usually just above, as is certainly the case here. There's no need to quote an entire article just to basically add "RE:" to remind everyone of what's being responded to.

Ok, if you read carefully we are saying the same thing on that one, I missed the negation in your "needn't" because you made a confusion between editing and quoting.

(2023-12-23 21:19)Mitch_Shepard Wrote: That's a pointless technicality, and why bother? Why not just accept reality instead of nitpicking? That Recurbate exists and has been operating for years redistributing full recordings of cam shows from start to finish proves that no one, not Chaturbate, not models, not studios can make legal cases that recordings somehow damage their sales of live broadcasts. It's all anyone needs to pay attention to, but there are many other examples.

Pointless technicality? The whole thing is about ownership before being a copyright issue.
And why do you bother rambling about what you seem to consider in fact a non matter?

(2023-12-23 21:19)Mitch_Shepard Wrote: Thanks for reading, but why don't you make a valid point about something instead of trying to discredit with random insults about drunkenness. I'm always happy to entertain valid counterpoints. You just don't have any and I've already explained this.

How is talking about drunkenness an insult, plus beginning by "sorry" ? Your statement is so outrageous that my question is valid.
The bandwith is financed by the tokens bought by the viewers due to the presence of models, no matter whose of those get the tips since it's all about accumulation/repartition, same way Chaturbate proceeds to pay the models since the platform get all of the money from the buyers up-front. The models who attract less (in fact virtual) tips create mass and visibility anyway for the cam site which doesn't lose a penny by broadcasting one more or one less perfomer. They don't run the business according to individuals but as a whole. Saying Chaturbate is providing bandwith for free is just complete nonsense and models pay at first with their image which is the commodity dealt on cam sites. That's why ownership of the image and its value is the matter.

Mitch_Shepard · 2023-12-24 17:09

(2023-12-23 23:20)holmes Wrote: Pointless technicality? The whole thing is about ownership before being a copyright issue.
And why do you bother rambling about what you seem to consider in fact a non matter?

For me, the whole thing is to help people to share content, not to get caught up in legal technicalities no one has ever dealt with in real life.

(2023-12-23 23:20)holmes Wrote: How is talking about drunkenness an insult, plus beginning by "sorry" ? Your statement is so outrageous that my question is valid.
The bandwith is financed by the tokens bought by the viewers due to the presence of models, no matter whose of those get the tips since it's all about accumulation/repartition, same way Chaturbate proceeds to pay the models since the platform get all of the money from the buyers up-front. The models who attract less (in fact virtual) tips create mass and visibility anyway for the cam site which doesn't lose a penny by broadcasting one more or one less perfomer. They don't run the business according to individuals but as a whole. Saying Chaturbate is providing bandwith for free is just complete nonsense and models pay at first with their image which is the commodity dealt on cam sites.

That Chaturbate provides free bandwidth to models that we pay for isn't nonsense at all. In fact, you say so in your second sentence above. Models pay nothing. Their "images" are their marketing like fishing lures to get money out of us which benefits them as they freeload while we pay for everything.

The streaming wouldn't be financed by cam site operators if all models behaved like the ones I'm talking about because almost no one would be on cam sites buying tokens, just as almost no one is in the rooms of models who whine about "freeloaders" because they have no clue how cam sites work, as you don't seem to understand either.

"The commodity" is twofold due to model competition via site rankings that determine which models get stream previews where on page 1, 2, 3, etc., of the cam site's homepage which is the main advertising most models have. We're a commodity to models as viewers, or at least to successful models who understand the basics of business (like not insulting one's customers for no good reason calling them "freeloaders" simply because they have no tokens that evening, yet) and how cam sites work. The more of us models can pack into their room, the closer their stream preview moves towards to top of page one on the cam site's homepage, where models can gain a lot of exposure and earn a lot of money making viewers a commodity to models who know what they're doing.

I personally won't log in or say hello to models unless I can tip to (at least) give them a thumbs-up, but when a model complains about "freeloaders", she's missing the point that every viewer in her room is helping her to get closer to the top of page one on the cam site's homepage, demonstrating a lack of understanding of how cam sites work, which will cause her to fail and quit eventually if she doesn't learn.

She's also missing the point that in the rooms of almost every successful model, only a few viewers carry the show each evening. Joe, Frank, Pete and Jim have tokens one night then they're out of tokens the next night, so are "freeloading" while Alex, Bob, Dave and George carry the show because they have tokens the next night. That's how cam sites work because almost no one can afford to move shows along night after night with the insane prices models charge, and if models don't put on good public shows, they don't attract the number of people into their room that it takes to be successful.

A model who whines about "freeloaders" when it's what she's doing freeloading on the bandwidth we pay for is also not being very welcoming, which is poor customer relations, and it's just a fact that cam sites are expensive due to ridiculous prices set by models and almost no one is rich, so most viewers are "freeloading" most of the time. It just doesn't matter due to all the people on cam sites. If a model has a clue, if she puts on decent public shows to attract a good number of viewers into her room, there will always be a few viewers with tokens to spend while those without tokens (on any given evening) help her to get closer to the top of page one on the cam site's homepage.

Models who understand that succeed while the models who whine that they won't do "free shows" when they never do anything for free anyway (failing to attract people into their room, so they don't have enough people with tokens to spend evening after evening), and make people feel unwelcome by complaining about who isn't tipping that particular evening drive their potential customers away, and it shows in their low viewership.

If all models did it, there'd be far fewer people on cam sites, so I'd say such models are abusing the free streaming let alone just freeloading off it.

holmes · (This post was last modified: 2023-12-26 14:37 by holmes.)

(2023-12-24 17:09)Mitch_Shepard Wrote: For me, the whole thing is to help people to share content, not to get caught up in legal technicalities no one has ever dealt with in real life.

So why post a long "legal" text if you can't take a debate? And I'm only talking about real life since ownership and valuation of image is a major concern for millions of people due to the development of internet.

(2023-12-24 17:09)Mitch_Shepard Wrote: That Chaturbate provides free bandwidth to models that we pay for isn't nonsense at all. In fact, you say so in your second sentence above. Models pay nothing. Their "images" are their marketing like fishing lures to get money out of us which benefits them as they freeload while we pay for everything.

You are paying because you value the image of the models which is what is offered through cam sites. I will say again that image is the main valuable thing (you say it's a lure but it's in fact the actual product you are here for), operators providing only a "tube" (plus concentrating the offer which is helpful for both clients and performers), nontheless important and indissociable part of the process. Bandwidth is paid by what models are selling. In other words the value of their image pays for it. I understand it's difficult for you to admit this value you try to diminish by calling models freeloaders, blaming them for you buying into what they offer, and perhaps because you have contempt for the product you consume which happens often when it's related to sex workers.

(2023-12-24 17:09)Mitch_Shepard Wrote: The streaming wouldn't be financed by cam site operators if all models behaved like the ones I'm talking about because almost no one would be on cam sites buying tokens, just as almost no one is in the rooms of models who whine about "freeloaders" because they have no clue how cam sites work, as you don't seem to understand either.

"The commodity" is twofold due to model competition via site rankings that determine which models get stream previews where on page 1, 2, 3, etc., of the cam site's homepage which is the main advertising most models have. We're a commodity to models as viewers, or at least to successful models who understand the basics of business (like not insulting one's customers for no good reason calling them "freeloaders" simply because they have no tokens that evening, yet) and how cam sites work. The more of us models can pack into their room, the closer their stream preview moves towards to top of page one on the cam site's homepage, where models can gain a lot of exposure and earn a lot of money making viewers a commodity to models who know what they're doing.

I personally won't log in or say hello to models unless I can tip to (at least) give them a thumbs-up, but when a model complains about "freeloaders", she's missing the point that every viewer in her room is helping her to get closer to the top of page one on the cam site's homepage, demonstrating a lack of understanding of how cam sites work, which will cause her to fail and quit eventually if she doesn't learn.

She's also missing the point that in the rooms of almost every successful model, only a few viewers carry the show each evening. Joe, Frank, Pete and Jim have tokens one night then they're out of tokens the next night, so are "freeloading" while Alex, Bob, Dave and George carry the show because they have tokens the next night. That's how cam sites work because almost no one can afford to move shows along night after night with the insane prices models charge, and if models don't put on good public shows, they don't attract the number of people into their room that it takes to be successful.

A model who whines about "freeloaders" when it's what she's doing freeloading on the bandwidth we pay for is also not being very welcoming, which is poor customer relations, and it's just a fact that cam sites are expensive due to ridiculous prices set by models and almost no one is rich, so most viewers are "freeloading" most of the time. It just doesn't matter due to all the people on cam sites. If a model has a clue, if she puts on decent public shows to attract a good number of viewers into her room, there will always be a few viewers with tokens to spend while those without tokens (on any given evening) help her to get closer to the top of page one on the cam site's homepage.

Models who understand that succeed while the models who whine that they won't do "free shows" when they never do anything for free anyway (failing to attract people into their room, so they don't have enough people with tokens to spend evening after evening), and make people feel unwelcome by complaining about who isn't tipping that particular evening drive their potential customers away, and it shows in their low viewership.

If all models did it, there'd be far fewer people on cam sites, so I'd say such models are abusing the free streaming let alone just freeloading off it.

If, if, if... What happened to the real world? And what's with this obsession with models complaining about freeloaders?
I understand the real world doesn't always work like you would like and you seem very prompt to give lesson on how people should run their business but all this seems quite empty talk to me, which I would almost call wishful thinking, something I thought you were criticizing.
And I would like to ask you to explain to me how I don't understand how cam sites work but only if you want to continue with my "irrelevant" interventions in your thread which provides useful informations btw.

PS: please look for the definition of the word "commodity".

Mitch_Shepard · 2023-12-27 15:07

(2023-12-26 11:22)holmes Wrote: So why post a long "legal" text if you can't take a debate?

"A long legal text?" You must have me mixed up with someone who posted a long legal text from Harvard along with two long legal texts from Wikipedia to prove nothing anyone needed to know about in this thread.

My text begins by stating that I'm not a lawyer and that if anyone needs legal advice they should consult a qualified attorney. That's not a "legal text" and I used real-world example like VCRs and library books to explain copyright as lawyers explained it to me... as explained in my post that you haven't addressed a word of. You make up your own arguments so you can make a point about things my original article doesn't say.

(2023-12-26 11:22)holmes Wrote: You are paying because you value the image of the models which is what is offered through cam sites. I will say again that image is the main valuable thing (you say it's a lure but it's in fact the actual product you are here for), operators providing only a "tube" (plus concentrating the offer which is helpful for both clients and performers), nontheless important and indissociable part of the process.

You again had to completely miss the point and go out of your way to miss the point. WHO are you describing above, the models who know what they're doing, who don't call anyone "freeloaders" in their rooms because they understand cam sites, business, marketing, competition and capitalism in general, or the models that were and remain the topic of the conversation, the ones who DO whine about "freeloaders"?

You want to argue that not ALL models are the same, or some such nonsense, but that's not the topic here. Models who whine about "freeloading pirates" are the topic of the post I entitled by that name.

(2023-12-26 11:22)holmes Wrote: Bandwidth is paid by what models are selling.

Models who whine about "freeloaders" are selling nothing much because they have almost no viewers in their rooms, and what they need are some "pirates" promoting them but no one is doing that either because these models sit there doing fuck all nothing but whining about what they won't do "for free" when none of them ever do anything for free anyway.

They want money and they know there must be money on cam sites but that's about all they know. Maybe try sticking to the topic instead of wandering off into nothing anyone has been talking about. No one was talking about cam sites in general or models in general as you are above. There are models who know how cam sites work, the successful ones, and there are models (and viewers who "help" them, maybe including you) who have no idea about much of anything and they whine about "freeloading pirates", the topic of the post you keep (probably intentionally) missing the point of to make up arguments about things no one is talking about.

(2023-12-26 11:22)holmes Wrote: If, if, if... What happened to the real world? And what's with this obsession with models complaining about freeloaders?

You need "if" explained to you (which is done, in writing, and I won't do it again) because you can't manage to focus on the topic you think you're debating. You want to make some general points about law, cam sites and models that no one was ever talking about. Nothing you've said has anything to do with anything I've said.

If you can find someone who says the models we happily and voluntarily give our tokens to provide no value to cam sites or viewers, so are freeloaders, you'll have found whoever it is that you want to argue with. But it's not me and has nothing to do with anything I've said.

holmes · (This post was last modified: 2023-12-30 11:00 by holmes.)

(2023-12-27 15:07)Mitch_Shepard Wrote: "A long legal text?" You must have me mixed up with someone who posted a long legal text from Harvard along with two long legal texts from Wikipedia to prove nothing anyone needed to know about in this thread.

My text begins by stating that I'm not a lawyer and that if anyone needs legal advice they should consult a qualified attorney. That's not a "legal text" and I used real-world example like VCRs and library books to explain copyright as lawyers explained it to me... as explained in my post that you haven't addressed a word of. You make up your own arguments so you can make a point about things my original article doesn't say.

You understand the meaning of the quotes (") when I wrote "legal", right?
And should I repeat again that before adressing the copyright issue an owner must be determined, which is the matter at hand regarding camming. So, you make stuff up about copyright to accomodate your views?

(2023-12-27 15:07)Mitch_Shepard Wrote: You again had to completely miss the point and go out of your way to miss the point. WHO are you describing above, the models who know what they're doing, who don't call anyone "freeloaders" in their rooms because they understand cam sites, business, marketing, competition and capitalism in general, or the models that were and remain the topic of the conversation, the ones who DO whine about "freeloaders"?

You want to argue that not ALL models are the same, or some such nonsense, but that's not the topic here. Models who whine about "freeloading pirates" are the topic of the post I entitled by that name.

Models who whine about "freeloaders" are selling nothing much because they have almost no viewers in their rooms, and what they need are some "pirates" promoting them but no one is doing that either because these models sit there doing fuck all nothing but whining about what they won't do "for free" when none of them ever do anything for free anyway.

They want money and they know there must be money on cam sites but that's about all they know. Maybe try sticking to the topic instead of wandering off into nothing anyone has been talking about. No one was talking about cam sites in general or models in general as you are above. There are models who know how cam sites work, the successful ones, and there are models (and viewers who "help" them, maybe including you) who have no idea about much of anything and they whine about "freeloading pirates", the topic of the post you keep (probably intentionally) missing the point of to make up arguments about things no one is talking about.

(2023-12-27 15:07)Mitch_Shepard Wrote: You need "if" explained to you (which is done, in writing, and I won't do it again) because you can't manage to focus on the topic you think you're debating. You want to make some general points about law, cam sites and models that no one was ever talking about. Nothing you've said has anything to do with anything I've said.

If you can find someone who says the models we happily and voluntarily give our tokens to provide no value to cam sites or viewers, so are freeloaders, you'll have found whoever it is that you want to argue with. But it's not me and has nothing to do with anything I've said.

Apparently you don't understand that I'm talking about your "pirates".
Of course some models get their stream financed by others more successful but it's then an issue between performers due to how platforms operate. Those don't care about which model get tipped, what matters is that people buy tokens. Did you ever hear about an account being banned for not getting enough tips? No, because operators run their business as a whole as I already said, plus they never know when an obscure model could suddenly catch a whale or become more popular.
Your so called "freeloading pirates" are part of a large system (flawed in many ways) and contribute to it just by being there anyway. You think cam sites would just entertain thousands of rooms if they were losing money by doing so? And we could say that every performers are "freeloading" (not me speaking) at some point in their career, in the beginning or when their business is slow, which doesn't happen at the same time for each of them. We could question the possibility that there is some unacknowledged form of solidarity on cam sites and in appearance only contrary to business. But I'm reaching... Or am I?

Why do you care about the whining of some? Get over it. If your long "legal" text was only about that then I misread it indeed. I though it was about the reality of how cam sites work, but it's in fact just you complaining and whining about something no one cares about, with a bunch of pointless "if" all over. Oh, people are not equally skilled? Successful? "Intelligent"? Duh.

So to sum it up: all these lazy bitches wanting our money, ha!

paisa_pussy_lover · 2023-12-30 12:31

and stop worrying about getting "caught" recording these whores and sharing/posting their videos. If it has ever happened to anyone it would've been all over social media and the internet. No one cares. It is free publicity for the whores and the cam sites.

ohnoyetanotherusername · 2023-12-30 12:37

Mitch_Shepard is completely wrong about most of the things he's written about copyright. Not that it matters much, but that's how it is.

Mitch_Shepard · 2023-12-30 17:36

(2023-12-29 16:08)holmes Wrote: Why do you care about the whining of some? Get over it. If your long "legal" text was only about that then I misread it indeed. I though it was about the reality of how cam sites work, but it's in fact just you complaining and whining about something no one cares about, with a bunch of pointless "if" all over. Oh, people are not equally skilled? Successful? "Intelligent"? Duh.

So to sum it up: all these lazy bitches wanting our money, ha!

Yeah, duh, and don't tell me or anyone else what to "get over". You need to get over the dementia that prevents you from following simple points about simple reality. The only argument there is to make against what I said regarding models who whine about "freeloading pirates" is to state that it's a good idea for models to insult their paying and potential customers and for you to then show us the models who DO THIS and are successful cam models. Name them, so we can see their glorious capitalist success stories for ourselves and they can then re-educate the entire world about capitalism and how to treat customers.

That's the "duh" of your posts. You've never made a point about anything regarding what I actually said, and I don't really care when it's just models whining and failing over their own ignorance, which is what always happens to them. I care when they lecture others in their room who believe the nonsense about "freeloaders" and "pirates" who then go around sending DMCA takedown notices getting what are nothing but promotional videos of their favorite models taken down. It's a pain in the ass and I'm calling them out. It has little to do with models, but had you read and understood my post, or grasped the concept of this thread in helping others to share content from cam models, you'd know that.

Mitch_Shepard · 2023-12-30 17:40

(2023-12-30 12:37)ohnoyetanotherusername Wrote: Mitch_Shepard is completely wrong about most of the things he's written about copyright. Not that it matters much, but that's how it is.

Right. Reality is wrong. VCRs were taken down and out by TV and movie producers. If you find a newspaper, magazine or novel laying around, don't pick it up or you could be sued for copyright violation! And report your local library for pirating!

holmes · (This post was last modified: 2024-01-03 13:16 by holmes.)

(2023-12-30 17:36)Mitch_Shepard Wrote: Yeah, duh, and don't tell me or anyone else what to "get over". You need to get over the dementia that prevents you from following simple points about simple reality. The only argument there is to make against what I said regarding models who whine about "freeloading pirates" is to state that it's a good idea for models to insult their paying and potential customers and for you to then show us the models who DO THIS and are successful cam models. Name them, so we can see their glorious capitalist success stories for ourselves and they can then re-educate the entire world about capitalism and how to treat customers.

That's the "duh" of your posts. You've never made a point about anything regarding what I actually said, and I don't really care when it's just models whining and failing over their own ignorance, which is what always happens to them. I care when they lecture others in their room who believe the nonsense about "freeloaders" and "pirates" who then go around sending DMCA takedown notices getting what are nothing but promotional videos of their favorite models taken down. It's a pain in the ass and I'm calling them out. It has little to do with models, but had you read and understood my post, or grasped the concept of this thread in helping others to share content from cam models, you'd know that.

How is your long text titled "freeloading pirates" helping others to share content from cam models? It's apparently just you complaining about the behavior of some performers who will fail on their own anyway as you said so yourself. So what's the problem? Now it's about the people who believe what models say and do hypothetical things...?

Whatever you say my posts are about what you actually wrote, that is some models are freeloading pirates and that cam sites provide bandwidth for free related to that.
But since you can't (or don't want to) construct a thing with the elements I provided I will lay it out which is less interesting in a discussion, but so be it:
The system is financed by the fact that people buy tokens, not because they tip which is irrelevant. We say that some models get their stream paid by others because we suppose they don't attract the buy of tokens, but we can't know (I sometimes bought tokens because I was interested in a model, then change my mind and spent it in other rooms. This doesn't change the fact that the performer who didn't get my tips is the reason why the platform got the whole of my money in the first place).
Plus, as I already said, the addition of each model's image (and the value we attach to) is what makes cam sites attractive for clients and profitable for the operators, as the system is designed so the operating costs are covered due to the buy of tokens attracted by the "community" of performers (again, this has nothing to do with who get tipped). That way anyone can stream and platforms can host as many rooms as they want. This seems quite sound business wise and I'll repeat if it's not clear enough that each model plays a part and contributes to the viability of that system.
So, my point has always been about something you clearly said, which I call a nonsense, and I've explained why. And the reality that some models may attract from the get go more tokens than others doesn't mean these others are freeloading pirates.

Mitch_Shepard · 2024-01-05 22:56

(2023-12-31 17:18)holmes Wrote: How is your long text titled "freeloading pirates" helping others to share content from cam models? It's apparently just you complaining about the behavior of some performers who will fail on their own anyway as you said so yourself. So what's the problem? Now it's about the people who believe what models say and do hypothetical things...?

Oh, now I'm the one who has a problem with my own post. You started out claiming that I must have been drunk stating that models could be freeloaders. You tried to argue that point and got egg all over your face because there's nothing to argue. You didn't read or understand my post and you should never have responded how you did. Period.

You now seem to understand what my post actually says, and there's nothing hypothetical about the lost little puppies who lick the ankles of lost cam models and believe their excuses about "freeloading pirates", so they go around sending DMCA takedowns to get content of the kind I'm helping others to share here taken down which isn't very helpful in sharing content here.

(2023-12-31 17:18)holmes Wrote: Whatever you say my posts are about what you actually wrote, that is some models are freeloading pirates and that cam sites provide bandwidth for free related to that.

You're now trying to claim that I didn't understand my own post but you did and you didn't try to claim that I must have been drunk when I wrote it? You've done nothing but make up points that no one needed made to them about what's blatantly obvious (cam models who don't freeload, who actually do their job, so the ones we tip, don't freeload, duh) and you argued your own point to yourself to make a point to yourself that you're right about nothing anyone was ever talking about in the first place.

(2023-12-31 17:18)holmes Wrote: But since you can't (or don't want to) construct a thing with the elements I provided I will lay it out which is less interesting in a discussion, but so be it:
The system is financed by the fact that people buy tokens, not because they tip which is irrelevant.

Right. People buy tokens to collect them, not to tip. Tipping is irrelevant and you claim I was drunk when I wrote my post?

(2023-12-31 17:18)holmes Wrote: We say that some models get their stream paid by others because we suppose they don't attract the buy of tokens, but we can't know (I sometimes bought tokens because I was interested in a model, then change my mind and spent it in other rooms. This doesn't change the fact that the performer who didn't get my tips is the reason why the platform got the whole of my money in the first place).

If you didn't spend tokens you wouldn't buy more. The only reason you'll buy more tokens is because you left the room of the model who you didn't tip, and if you went to 500 other rooms and didn't tip any of those models either, you wouldn't have to buy more tokens, ever. Or are you now trying to state that people buy tokens even though they don't need them? They bought 1000 tokens yesterday, still have 1000 tokens today because they didn't find anyone worth tipping yesterday, but decide to buy 1000 more tokens for no apparent reason?

(2023-12-31 17:18)holmes Wrote: Plus, as I already said, the addition of each model's image (and the value we attach to) is what makes cam sites attractive for clients and profitable for the operators, as the system is designed so the operating costs are covered due to the buy of tokens attracted by the "community" of performers (again, this has nothing to do with who get tipped).

Are you new to planet Earth? Images don't amount to people spending tokens and if they don't spend them, they don't buy more. Or do you throw your tokens at images alone looking at images when models are offline and then tipping them offline having never seen if they actually do good live shows or not, and is that the point you claim you've been trying to make all along now, yet another nonsensical point? "People don't tip models for good live shows. They tip their images whether models have a clue what they're doing or not. Clueless models who have no idea how to earn tokens, so who whine about 'freeloading pirates' have good 'images' and that's all that matters."

How could anyone in any business have a good image when they insult paying and potential customers by calling them "freeloading pirates"? You can't even make sense of the scrambling around you're doing to try to find something to save face with, which I'm not going to allow you to do, in case you haven't noticed.

(2023-12-31 17:18)holmes Wrote: That way anyone can stream and platforms can host as many rooms as they want. This seems quite sound business wise and I'll repeat if it's not clear enough that each model plays a part and contributes to the viability of that system.

You can repeat whatever nonsense you want. All it does is keep driving the point home that you have no point to make that makes any sense. We pay more for tokens due to lazy, cowardly people who show up on cam sites without a clue how they work, without doing any research or learning anything much at all, and they sit there doing fuck all nothing freeloading on the free bandwidth we pay for with our tokens, that we only tip to competent models. That's the point. They're freeloaders and parasites who cost everyone who buys tokens money, and they also waste the most valuable resource we have, our time, which is all you're doing with your posts here.

tonymaik · (This post was last modified: 2024-01-05 23:20 by tonymaik.)

A little question
do a model see when you record the pvt with obs ?

holmes · (This post was last modified: 2024-01-08 7:38 by holmes.)

(2024-01-05 22:56)Mitch_Shepard Wrote:
(2023-12-31 17:18)holmes Wrote: How is your long text titled "freeloading pirates" helping others to share content from cam models? It's apparently just you complaining about the behavior of some performers who will fail on their own anyway as you said so yourself. So what's the problem? Now it's about the people who believe what models say and do hypothetical things...?

Oh, now I'm the one who has a problem with my own post. You started out claiming that I must have been drunk stating that models could be freeloaders. You tried to argue that point and got egg all over your face because there's nothing to argue. You didn't read or understand my post and you should never have responded how you did. Period.

You now seem to understand what my post actually says, and there's nothing hypothetical about the lost little puppies who lick the ankles of lost cam models and believe their excuses about "freeloading pirates", so they go around sending DMCA takedowns to get content of the kind I'm helping others to share here taken down which isn't very helpful in sharing content here.

(2023-12-31 17:18)holmes Wrote: Whatever you say my posts are about what you actually wrote, that is some models are freeloading pirates and that cam sites provide bandwidth for free related to that.

You're now trying to claim that I didn't understand my own post but you did and you didn't try to claim that I must have been drunk when I wrote it? You've done nothing but make up points that no one needed made to them about what's blatantly obvious (cam models who don't freeload, who actually do their job, so the ones we tip, don't freeload, duh) and you argued your own point to yourself to make a point to yourself that you're right about nothing anyone was ever talking about in the first place.

(2023-12-31 17:18)holmes Wrote: But since you can't (or don't want to) construct a thing with the elements I provided I will lay it out which is less interesting in a discussion, but so be it:
The system is financed by the fact that people buy tokens, not because they tip which is irrelevant.

Right. People buy tokens to collect them, not to tip. Tipping is irrelevant and you claim I was drunk when I wrote my post?

(2023-12-31 17:18)holmes Wrote: We say that some models get their stream paid by others because we suppose they don't attract the buy of tokens, but we can't know (I sometimes bought tokens because I was interested in a model, then change my mind and spent it in other rooms. This doesn't change the fact that the performer who didn't get my tips is the reason why the platform got the whole of my money in the first place).

If you didn't spend tokens you wouldn't buy more. The only reason you'll buy more tokens is because you left the room of the model who you didn't tip, and if you went to 500 other rooms and didn't tip any of those models either, you wouldn't have to buy more tokens, ever. Or are you now trying to state that people buy tokens even though they don't need them? They bought 1000 tokens yesterday, still have 1000 tokens today because they didn't find anyone worth tipping yesterday, but decide to buy 1000 more tokens for no apparent reason?

(2023-12-31 17:18)holmes Wrote: Plus, as I already said, the addition of each model's image (and the value we attach to) is what makes cam sites attractive for clients and profitable for the operators, as the system is designed so the operating costs are covered due to the buy of tokens attracted by the "community" of performers (again, this has nothing to do with who get tipped).

Are you new to planet Earth? Images don't amount to people spending tokens and if they don't spend them, they don't buy more. Or do you throw your tokens at images alone looking at images when models are offline and then tipping them offline having never seen if they actually do good live shows or not, and is that the point you claim you've been trying to make all along now, yet another nonsensical point? "People don't tip models for good live shows. They tip their images whether models have a clue what they're doing or not. Clueless models who have no idea how to earn tokens, so who whine about 'freeloading pirates' have good 'images' and that's all that matters."

How could anyone in any business have a good image when they insult paying and potential customers by calling them "freeloading pirates"? You can't even make sense of the scrambling around you're doing to try to find something to save face with, which I'm not going to allow you to do, in case you haven't noticed.

(2023-12-31 17:18)holmes Wrote: That way anyone can stream and platforms can host as many rooms as they want. This seems quite sound business wise and I'll repeat if it's not clear enough that each model plays a part and contributes to the viability of that system.

You can repeat whatever nonsense you want. All it does is keep driving the point home that you have no point to make that makes any sense. We pay more for tokens due to lazy, cowardly people who show up on cam sites without a clue how they work, without doing any research or learning anything much at all, and they sit there doing fuck all nothing freeloading on the free bandwidth we pay for with our tokens, that we only tip to competent models. That's the point. They're freeloaders and parasites who cost everyone who buys tokens money, and they also waste the most valuable resource we have, our time, which is all you're doing with your posts here.

So, the concern is that some viewers are responsible for vids being taken down, on behalf of models who whined about freeloaders? I hope you realize this is so anecdotal that it's pretty much unnoticeable in your text. Why the need to create false problems? And btw how many vids are we talking about and where does this information come from?

Interestingly you don't get that I'm talking about facts and the reality of how cam sites work. Of course you want to avoid the discussion since you are just rambling about empty concerns although it's your right, but saying it's to "help" people is a bit much.
Seems to me you are a freeloading pirate (even if you might spend tokens aside) not assuming himself and looking for justifications by constructing a story about copyright and some models being freeloading pirates themselves. So, enjoy your bad faith.

That's a shame because since your tutorials are quite well organized I tried to make sense of your text, which is in fact just full of confusions. I only wasted my time because you don't seem to be stupid but you don't seem to realize the nonsensical things you just wrote again (and unrelated to what I said).

(2024-01-05 22:56)Mitch_Shepard Wrote:
(2023-12-31 17:18)holmes Wrote: But since you can't (or don't want to) construct a thing with the elements I provided I will lay it out which is less interesting in a discussion, but so be it:
The system is financed by the fact that people buy tokens, not because they tip which is irrelevant.

Right. People buy tokens to collect them, not to tip. Tipping is irrelevant and you claim I was drunk when I wrote my post?

Perfect example here. Either you play dumb or you try to manipulate things, I don't know. What I said is pretty clear though: "The system is financed by the fact that people buy tokens, not because they tip which is irrelevant." Do you really need an explanation for that? And why do you respond with something that has nothing to do with what I said?

sfmpegs · 2024-01-07 17:18

Does anyone know if there is a way to identify if two models work for the same studio?

Mitch_Shepard · 2024-01-18 20:31

(2024-01-05 23:19)tonymaik Wrote: A little question
do a model see when you record the pvt with obs ?

No. They have no idea.

Mitch_Shepard · 2024-01-18 22:34

(2024-01-07 12:30)holmes Wrote: So, the concern is that some viewers are responsible for vids being taken down, on behalf of models who whined about freeloaders? I hope you realize this is so anecdotal that it's pretty much unnoticeable in your text. Why the need to create false problems? And btw how many vids are we talking about and where does this information come from?

It comes from simple reality. I just finished fixing ten more posts of mine, five at a time how I upload them, because an ignoramus who thinks himself a superhero in a cape helping models to defend themselves against "freeloaders" who "pirate" their precious content got all of the images I created deleted by whining about copyright infringement.

The idiots at the website who deleted all my images would be in court for years for deleting my hard work if I could retain attorneys to sue them to oblivion for however many years it takes, and it always takes years. But I don't do this for money and I'm not going to pay lawyers to sue image hosting companies for being clueless morons. I wish I could but I can't afford it, so I have to suck up their stupidity spending hours re-uploading images that never violated anyone's copyright to begin with and editing my posts all over this site. That's just one place the "information" comes from.

(2024-01-07 12:30)holmes Wrote: Interestingly you don't get that I'm talking about facts and the reality of how cam sites work. Of course you want to avoid the discussion since you are just rambling about empty concerns although it's your right, but saying it's to "help" people is a bit much.
Seems to me you are a freeloading pirate (even if you might spend tokens aside) not assuming himself and looking for justifications by constructing a story about copyright and some models being freeloading pirates themselves. So, enjoy your bad faith.

I'm aware that it's how it "seems to you". You would simply have found my post informative and even liberating otherwise, agreeing that models who call their customers "freeloading pirates" have no idea how cam sites work, no idea about business, competition or capitalism. But you've now finally confessed that the true reason you take exception with my article is that you agree with oblivious models who call their customers "freeloaders" and/or "pirates" because you don't understand how cam sites, business or marketing work either.

(2024-01-07 12:30)holmes Wrote: That's a shame because since your tutorials are quite well organized I tried to make sense of your text, which is in fact just full of confusions. I only wasted my time because you don't seem to be stupid but you don't seem to realize the nonsensical things you just wrote again (and unrelated to what I said).

You're not addressing anything anyone brought up in this thread. You haven't addressed anything I've said because you can't without being wrong. You've been off on a point that you made up by yourself, so you might as well open your own thread to talk to yourself. I've never disagreed with the irrelevant points you've made. They just have no place here because you're not arguing with anything I said.

(2023-12-31 17:18)holmes Wrote: But since you can't (or don't want to) construct a thing with the elements I provided

This is what you're doing wrong and keep getting wrong. I don't care about the "elements" you've constructed because you fabricated it from nowhere. You've made up your own argument so you can argue with yourself to prove that you're right. It's all you've done.

If you want to argue with my original article, you'll have to explain how models who call their customers "freeloaders" and/or "pirates" are right and that they are the successful models, not the ones who fail. You just can't do that because it's not true. You clearly want my argument to be false, but it's not, and you can't argue with it as it is, so you go off on your own arguments about nothing I ever said and about things no one ever needed anyone pointing out.

(2024-01-07 12:30)holmes Wrote:
(2024-01-05 22:56)Mitch_Shepard Wrote:
(2023-12-31 17:18)holmes Wrote: But since you can't (or don't want to) construct a thing with the elements I provided I will lay it out which is less interesting in a discussion, but so be it:
The system is financed by the fact that people buy tokens, not because they tip which is irrelevant.

Right. People buy tokens to collect them, not to tip. Tipping is irrelevant and you claim I was drunk when I wrote my post?

Perfect example here. Either you play dumb or you try to manipulate things, I don't know. What I said is pretty clear though: "The system is financed by the fact that people buy tokens, not because they tip which is irrelevant." Do you really need an explanation for that? And why do you respond with something that has nothing to do with what I said?

Try addressing the topic at hand if you want to try to argue with my original article. Make the point that models who call their customers "freeloaders" and/or "pirates" are being wise. It's the only way you can argue with what I said.

Tell everyone how they're right if you want to make a point, and stop dancing around as though you're going to confuse me because it's not going to happen. If you have anything to argue about my original article, then go ahead and tell everyone how it makes sense for models to call their customers "freeloaders" and/or "pirates" and how doing so leads to success.

I say the exact opposite is true, that it always leads to failure and that the models who whine about "freeloaders" and/or "pirates" are themselves the freeloaders who understand nothing about how cam sites work and nothing about copyright, business or marketing.

It's explained quite clearly in my original post, which you can't argue, so you keep trying to make up your own points that have nothing to do with my original article, and that I'm not going to address because this is my thread and you're not going to change the topic of it or of my posts to what you want to argue about just so you can be right about points no one ever made.

holmes · (This post was last modified: 2024-01-23 15:54 by holmes.)

(2023-12-21 19:46)Mitch_Shepard Wrote: Never take any shit about “freeloading” on cam sites. The only true freeloaders on cam sites are models who freeload on the bandwidth cam site operators provide for free, which they do expecting models to put on good shows for ALL viewers, including the ones who have no tokens to spend on any given night, so everyone keeps coming back to the site evening after evening. The models who whine about “freeloaders” are themselves the ones who are freeloading on the free bandwidth cam site operators provide. They understand nothing about how cam sites work and almost always fail due to their ignorance, not due to the “freeloading pirates” they scapegoat.

From the start I'm only talking, and clearly, about something you stated (I just quoted it again) which I call a nonsense, and all you do is divert the discussion because you have no ground so of course you don't address my questions (on the other hand I always tried to understand what you wrote). Let's see if you can focus on the point.
All the models get their stream covered before even getting tipped. And that because people bought tokens, meaning the platform always get the whole of the money up-front (third time I'm saying that). So, as all the streams are financed by the same single source (the bulk of money received in advance by the operator), what allows you to talk about models freeloading and operators providing bandwidth for free?

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