2022-11-22 8:32
Hey guys, I have an odd question. On camwhores i added some people to see their private videos. Some of them asked for money. Isn't this illegal??
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IS IT ILLEGAL TO SELL RECORDINGS?
- IS IT ILLEGAL TO SELL RECORDINGS?
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2022-11-22 8:442022-11-22 9:452022-11-22 11:28 (This post was last modified: 2022-11-22 11:47 by GoodLookingMofo.)(2022-11-22 9:45)ohnoyetanotherusername Wrote: You are breaking copyright even if you upload for free.
It's more complicated than that.
You must define who is the copyright holder, then you must define where and how the copyright infringement occurred, as well as the applicable jurisdiction to enforce that copyright.
In most jurisdictions :
- Recording a copyrighted stream for your personal use is tolerated.
- Sharing a recorded stream with close friends is tolerated.
- Sharing a recorded stream with copyright holder's authorization is legal.
- Sharing a recorded stream publicly or privately with unknown people is not legal.
- Sharing a recorded stream publicly or privately with unknown people for money is an aggravated copyright infringement.
- Selling or reselling a recorded stream without copyright holder's authorization is illegal.
In practice:
- Copyright holder must be defined (it can be the performer, a studio, a cam site, etc.)
- Copyright holder must be aware of a copyright infringement (so it must be somehow public or reported).
- Copyright holder must legally prove that he/she is the actual owner of the shared copyrighted content.
- Copyright holder must request the copyrighted content to be removed prior to any further legal process (in most jurisdictions).
- Copyright holder can sue somebody, but who ? It can be the initial uploader, a re-uploader, the uploading website, the website hosting provider...
Jurisprudence:
People sharing copyrighted contents for free may be subject to a fine (civil lawsuit).
People selling or sharing (for commercial purpose) stolen copyrighted contents may be subject to years in jail and a huge fine (criminal lawsuit).
In addition to this, a copyright holder could also sue an uploader for other reasons including reputation damage, privacy violation and any collateral consequence resulting from his action.
Note that I kept it simple for everybody to get the big picture
2022-11-22 12:01 (This post was last modified: 2022-11-22 12:04 by ohnoyetanotherusername.)It is not sooo difficult. Copyright holder, with rare exceptions, is the creator (in this case the camgirl). Unless you ask for permission to upload from the creator, you break copyright. There may be some weird places in the world where it's different but this is how copyright is defined.
It is also just common sense. If it's not your own creation, ask before uploading or using it. Pretty basic rule.
You are describing ways to enforce copyright, which can indeed be more dificult.2022-11-22 12:30No
Judge Judy stated that "if you put anything on the internet, consider that public to everyone"
only copyrighted material is protected, but even that is not safe anymore.
and what is a police precinct going to do?
send a squad car to someone house for posting a video of a cam model?
then the legal system will waste time in a trial?
they cant even catch murderers anymore
so, nothing is going to happen if one posts, or camwhorestv would not exist.
unless the model in under age, then the pedophile laws will be in effect.
i hoped this helped!2022-11-22 12:41 (This post was last modified: 2022-11-22 12:47 by GoodLookingMofo.)(2022-11-22 12:01)ohnoyetanotherusername Wrote: It is not sooo difficult. Copyright holder, with rare exceptions, is the creator (in this case the camgirl).
You are right if you talk about an independent broadcaster streaming alone from her home with her own equipment and technology.
Then I let you search something like "who owns the copyright of a recorded webcam stream".
Note that copyright laws and personality rights are related but different topics.2022-11-22 13:20 (This post was last modified: 2022-11-22 13:23 by GoodLookingMofo.)(2022-11-22 12:30)deleted account Wrote: send a squad car to someone house for posting a video of a cam model?
You are right, a single posted video won't be enough to open a lawsuit against someone. But if you post hundreds or thousands videos and get a regular and substantial profit from it, there will be consequences.
Camwhores is still running because the website and his owner are located where Western polices can't physically seize, arrest or extradite him.2022-11-22 13:36(2022-11-22 12:30)deleted account Wrote: No
Judge Judy stated that "if you put anything on the internet, consider that public to everyone"
I highly doubt this.
(2022-11-22 12:30)deleted account Wrote: only copyrighted material is protected, but even that is not safe anymore.
That is correct but does not change that the material is copyrighted.
(2022-11-22 12:30)deleted account Wrote: and what is a police precinct going to do?
send a squad car to someone house for posting a video of a cam model?
then the legal system will waste time in a trial?
they cant even catch murderers anymore
so, nothing is going to happen if one posts, or camwhorestv would not exist.
unless the model in under age, then the pedophile laws will be in effect.
i hoped this helped!
This is correct.
In any way, it does not matter if the uploader demands money or not. It does not make it "more" illegal.2022-11-22 14:17 (This post was last modified: 2022-11-22 14:34 by GoodLookingMofo.)(2022-11-22 13:36)ohnoyetanotherusername Wrote: In any way, it does not matter if the uploader demands money or not. It does not make it "more" illegal.
It does matter.
Demanding money makes you criminally liable according (for example) to U.S law 18 U.S.C. 2319 - Criminal infringement of a copyright whereas "non-profit" sharing may generally only expose you to civil action.
Justia Wrote:Copyright infringers can be sued civilly and in some cases prosecuted criminally for the same infringing act. The civil statute of limitations is three years, but there is a five-year statute of limitations for a federal prosecutor to bring a criminal case against an infringer. In order to bring a felony copyright infringement action, the copyright must be registered. The prosecutor will have to show that the defendant willfully infringed for commercial advantage or financial gain by reproducing or distributing one or more copies or phonorecords of one or more copyrighted works with a total retail value of more than $1,000 during a 180-day period, or by distributing a work that was being prepared for commercial distribution by making it publicly accessible on a computer network, even though the defendant knew it was intended for commercial distribution.
Source:
- 18 U.S. Code § 2319: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2319
- Justia: https://www.justia.com/intellectual-prop...ringement/2022-11-22 14:37 (This post was last modified: 2022-11-22 14:43 by ohnoyetanotherusername.)Camwhores is hardly wikipedia and we are talking about camwhores here.
I'm thinking hard but there is no realistic scenario where an upload to camwhores is no copyright breach of whoever owns the copyright.2022-11-22 15:07 (This post was last modified: 2022-11-22 15:29 by GoodLookingMofo.)(2022-11-22 14:37)ohnoyetanotherusername Wrote: Camwhores is hardly wikipedia and we are talking about camwhores here.
His main question was:
klewie Wrote:Some of them asked for money. Isn't this illegal??"
Trying to get money on CW, here or somewhere else, including by sharing videos or pictures of stolen copyrighted materials through hosting affiliate programs without authorization remains a criminal activity according to U.S and most Western copyright laws.
(2022-11-22 14:37)ohnoyetanotherusername Wrote: I'm thinking hard but there is no realistic scenario where an upload to camwhores is no copyright breach of whoever owns the copyright.
On CW there were studios and even models (especially Western performers) who used to upload their own recorded streams to increase rooms or social media visibility and followers, as well as to make users subscribe for cam sites or other services through their affiliate links.
According to SimilarWeb camwhores.tv has close to 24 millions visitors a month.2022-11-22 15:46Come on, by far the most common case will be that "random camsite user" uploads a recording, video, picture, whatever to camwhores.tv without asking anyone (girl, studio, whoever) for permission before doing that. In that scenario it is irrelevant if money is demanded, if it's public or private video.
All other scenarios will be a tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of videos or other stuff, which is way I said there is no other realistic scenario.2022-11-22 17:38(2022-11-22 15:46)ohnoyetanotherusername Wrote: Come on, by far the most common case will be that "random camsite user" uploads a recording, video, picture, whatever to camwhores.tv without asking anyone (girl, studio, whoever) for permission before doing that. In that scenario it is irrelevant if money is demanded, if it's public or private video.
The thread question is "IS IT ILLEGAL TO SELL RECORDINGS ?" and I think @GoodLookingMofo fully answered this question.2022-11-22 17:39i was offered videos of a model i admire,
but refused payment
simple because the model would not receive any compensation.
Seems to me that this seems to be a moral issue than legal one.(2022-11-22 17:39)deleted account Wrote: i was offered videos of a model i admire,
but refused payment
simple because the model would not receive any compensation.
Seems to me that this seems to be a moral issue than legal one.
We are talking about camming, it's all about money, sex and lies. Hard to put morality on the table bro.
Leave compensation to God or whoever is in charge...2022-11-22 19:59I don't know what is funnier:
(A) Some dude thinking he's going to make some money off of his shitty caps.
(B) Someone actually paying for a cap (lucky if you get it), just because they have to jerk off to some "rare" video of a non-nude flashing her tits, or a camwhore sucking off her boyfriend.
Or © everyone else playing internet lawyer on this thread.
Honestly, I'm surprised you all went the copyright / DMCA route, and no one brought up nonconsensual porn / revenge porn laws. While it's slightly more difficult to prove, and laws vary state-to-state / country-to-country, it's typically a criminal offense; not a civil one. But, I guess no one wants to think that they're doing something wrong simply by posting caps, and they just want to focus on the selling aspect of it all.2022-11-23 0:39The Copyright holder is legally defined as the creator of the work.
When you pay a model for a private show , You are the creator.
Many websites record and store your private shows for you.
In case of a free live stream, this is mostly created by the model.
However since people are often tipping the model, it could be seen as a grey area.
Unless a model creates a work themself, they are not considered the creator.
Just like actors are in a motion picture, they do not hold the copyright to said motion picture.
They are simply paid participants in said motion picture.
So if the person is asking money for shows he/she produced and created, yes that is legal.
in any other circumstance, it would be illegal.
Your laws may be different and this may not apply to you.
Use your head and don't give money to strangers on the interrnet.2022-11-23 0:47(2022-11-23 0:39)SalmaX Wrote: The Copyright holder is legally defined as the creator of the work.
When you pay a model for a private show , You are the creator.
Many websites record and store your private shows for you.
In case of a free live stream, this is mostly created by the model.
However since people are often tipping the model, it could be seen as a grey area.
Unless a model creates a work themself, they are not considered the creator.
Just like actors are in a motion picture, they do not hold the copyright to said motion picture.
They are simply paid participants in said motion picture.
So if the person is asking money for shows he/she produced and created, yes that is legal.
in any other circumstance, it would be illegal.
Your laws may be different and this may not apply to you.
Use your head and don't give money to strangers on the interrnet.
this reply makes sense
thank you!2022-11-23 2:16(2022-11-23 0:39)SalmaX Wrote: The Copyright holder is legally defined as the creator of the work.
When you pay a model for a private show , You are the creator.
Many websites record and store your private shows for you.
In case of a free live stream, this is mostly created by the model.
However since people are often tipping the model, it could be seen as a grey area.
Unless a model creates a work themself, they are not considered the creator.
What are you talking about?
Sites are pretty explicit that broadcaster of the stream (i.e. the model) is considered the copyright owner, for example: DMCA Information for Models, which states that "In general, models broadcasting on MyFreeCams.com are the owner of their content and copyright. As part of the Model Agreement, models grant MFC a non-exclusive license to use this content on our website. However, as owners of the content and copyright, only models themselves have a right to submit a DMCA notice."
or for Chaturbate ... ToS section VI. Content, part b. Content Submitted to the Platform: "All materials submitted and/or streamed by Community Members through the Platform, including Member Content, and created by such Community Member ('Community Member Content') is and shall remain the property of the Community Member or Independent Broadcaster who created it."
Most sites have this legal-ease buried in their Terms of Service or Wiki/Support public documentation. It is also re-stated in the contract made with the model and/or studio.
For sites that record by default and/or offer a recording option of Private shows, they typically have a clause stating that the site is licensed for "storage", and the member is licensed for "re-viewing" for personal use. It does not permit re-distribution.
When you pay someone to create something for you, the copyright owner generally depends on the relationship between you and the person creating the work. In an employer-employee relationship, the employer is often (and typically by default) the copyright owner, unless explicitly stated otherwise contractually. For independent contractors, the contractor (typically by default) is the copyright owner, unless stated otherwise by the contract (which most independent contractor contracts have a section specially addressing these terms).
You're not the camwhore's employer, and you're transacting on a platform with a ToS that states that the broadcaster is the copyright owner. There really is no "grey area"; it's pretty cut and dry.2022-11-23 8:06 (This post was last modified: 2022-11-25 16:03 by GoodLookingMofo. Edit Reason: scolded :( )The question was "is it illegal to sell recordings ?" answer is yes.
Is selling or sharing such recordings for money a criminal activity ? yes.2022-11-25 16:56 (This post was last modified: 2022-11-25 17:31 by GoodLookingMofo.)(2022-11-22 19:59)mmodie Wrote: Honestly, I'm surprised you all went the copyright / DMCA route, and no one brought up nonconsensual porn / revenge porn laws. While it's slightly more difficult to prove, and laws vary state-to-state / country-to-country, it's typically a criminal offense; not a civil one. But, I guess no one wants to think that they're doing something wrong simply by posting caps, and they just want to focus on the selling aspect of it all.
Sorry I missed your interesting reply.
I actually mentioned:
GoodLookingMofo Wrote:In addition to this [copyright infringement], a copyright holder could also sue an uploader for other reasons including reputation damage, privacy violation and any collateral consequence resulting from his action.
Stalking, doxing and sextortion can be extreme risks for models (with criminal liability for users) however "revenge porn" legislation requires an in real life relationship between a model and a user and privately (free of charge) produced sexual images and videos.
There are situations and events where models and users can meet physically but I never heard about a model engaging in a love relationship with someone who was her user. In my opinion, it would be a nonsense.
Side note: if you send money or goods to a model directly (out of a cam site) and she sends you selfies and nudes on social media: this is still a business transaction, NOT a relationship.
